Our friends over at PokéBeach have broken down the numbers from the upcoming Pokémon Sun & Moon TCG expansion and they’ve made some interesting connections that may just reveal how many new monsters we’ll be seeing in the Nintendo 3DS games next month.

Sun & Moon [TCG] will feature over 40 new Alola Pokemon, including some Alolan Pokemon like Alolan Meowth. This is the same number of new Pokemon as XY. The first XY set featured around 40 new Kalos Pokemon, Black & White featured over 70 new Unova Pokemon (when they were doing the whole “older Pokemon don’t exist” thing and had 156 new Pokemon to show off), and Diamond & Pearl featured almost 60 new Sinnoh Pokemon. This may be a large hint that Alola will have around the same number of new Pokemon as Kalos, since, generally, the TCG takes between three and five sets to introduce a new generation’s Pokemon.

The general consensus from Pokémon X&Y was that the games lacked a sufficient number of new Pokémon, so this could be worrying. Of course, this is just an estimate based on past examples, so don’t lose all hope just yet.

FEATURED DISCUSSION: Shiny Pokemon Giveaway

  • SomeGuy

    That’d be disappointing but oh well. Still excited.

  • Leo

    Noooooooooooo

  • Mr. Marco.

    Thats pretty disappointing since we have a region whith so many cahnces for good designs/inspirations for new Pokémon. Shame on your laziness, Gamefreak..

    • Review Reviewer

      If they’re so “lazy”, tell me why the game is going to use up a lot of blocks.

      • LoquaciousUxie

        Because they didn’t delete the assets from X and Y? In all seriousness though I think a better measure of how little they are being lazy is just how much they are mixing it up this time around instead of sticking to the formula like a textbook like in X and Y.

        • Review Reviewer

          Still we have o clue how many there are yet

          • LoquaciousUxie

            How many new Pokémon? That really isn’t the point of my comment…

          • Review Reviewer

            oh

      • Because the updated graphical system.

      • Mr. Marco.

        I was talking about the specific topic of these news which was : new Pokémon, period. I didn’t mentioned another game features and game size.

  • The friendly zubat

    New Alola pokmon might mean new alola form pokemon.

  • Feralligator

    I think that sounds about right. Kalos had a little less than 80 new pokes and about 40 megas so Alola should get 80 new pokes with about 40 alolan pokemon.

  • LinksDaydream

    excuse me but we already have over 50 new pokemon revealed (not including Alolan forms and evolutions) so I find this highly unlikely, for us to have the same amount as XY they would only introduce a handful of more pokemon lines and at this point that would make it feel less complete than even XY. We will have at least 100 or around there to be complete in my opinion, anything less would just be strange. (oddly enough the XY pokedex as small as it was still felt complete to me, but S/M would not at that number)

    • LoquaciousUxie

      Well ORAS had all of its secrets revealed before it came out, even though it was a remake, what little new it had to offer was all shown and I’m not sure what kind of precedent that sets for the new games.

      • LinksDaydream

        I don’t really count ORAS in any of that because it is a remake so I wasn’t expecting them to do much else, and I’m pretty sure the only reason it had all of its secrets revealed was because of the demo, same with XY someone found out all there was in the games before release *or shortly after release, I don’t see that happening with SM

        • LoquaciousUxie

          We do have a demo coming out for sun and moon though… I think you are being rather over-optimistic if you think it won’t be data mined.

          • LinksDaydream

            Oh I’m sure it will but not before release, Pharap said it best the other day with his numbers on just how long and complex it would be to crack it open before the games release, they would have to be pretty lucky, and furthermore I’m sure GF has stepped up security on it

    • PumpkinBomb

      I remember that during XY they showed like 40 pokemon, I didnt count megas cause their are basically forms

  • The Queen of Peace

    Nooooo. I feel like Alolas are easier than megas so I was really expecting more

  • LoquaciousUxie

    Well it seems to be a matter of quality over quantity so I suppose I don’t mind too much…..

  • Review Reviewer

    Didn’t a leak including some true things say that there’ll be more Pokemon than Gen 6, but not by much? I’m sure it’s true, as it’s similar, so as long as we get at least more Pokemon in Gen 7, I’ll be fine.

  • TomAndRarity

    I don’t know, I’m a little skeptical. For starters, the leaks are an indication that there are Pokemon that we have yet to see, like the snowman line and the Pokemon based on toucans and dolphins. As well as this, there are a variety of evolutions that we have yet to see, which presumably include those for Komala, Cutiefly, Salandit, Jangmo-o, Wimpod, Pikipek and Bounsweet/Morelull. Along with this there are bound to be more Alolan Forms as well as traditional Pokemon such as the fossils.

    I find it a bit hard to believe that there will be few Pokemon in this generation.

  • TheSunnyMonster6893

    I for one wouldn’t mind this much. sure having a crap ton of Pokemon is fun, but considering they’re reinventing old Pokemon this gen I don’t mind. there are so many Pokemon now and the majority of them don’t get any time to shine. It might be time for slow the additions down to a near grinding halt and start focusing on the Pokemon we DO have rather than adding another 100 onto of the incredible amount already in circulation. Maybe if they do slow down they can focus their efforts towards making a really interesting story and whatnot lol

  • LoquaciousUxie

    I’m not going to worry about it, people put too much credence in patterns anyway

  • Bruno_Ostara

    I really don’t think that’s true. We already know 56 new Pokémon and 10 Alola form. I think more 11 if we count the evolution of the ones we know (Here I’m guessing bases on what their evolutions line look like). So we already have at least 67 pokemon, 3 more if we count the supposed Tapo guardians of each island. With Kalos we had what? 72? So for this game to have the same amount of Kalos there would be only 2 pokémon we don’t know. And that’s not even counting Alola forms. I think they’re trying to predict something that can be changed as the pokémon company feels like.

    • Bruno_Ostara

      The only thing that worries me is that they said that it look like there will be no new megas. I think if there were new megas at least some would appear on the base set

  • dark_gymleader

    The chinese leak said this many month ago , it said ” Larger , but not by much , amount of brand new Pokemon than last gen “

  • joker901

    Wait. We still don’t have dark and ice new pokemon. That would be terrible, considering that among the pokemon we already have and their evolutions we are at 70 new pokemon.

  • Bram Wildenberg

    I doubt this will be the case. The amount of sun and moon pokémon we know of vs the amount of known pokemon before the release of xy is quite different and what if they wanted to make this generation longer.

  • Honestly, I’d rather they keep it this way. Gen 7’s pokemon shown so far have been better developed and realized than those of previous gens: i’s a quality over quantity argument.

    We’ve already got over 700 of these things, so there’s no longer any need to pad the roster at this point. Plus, they can just go back to older pokemon, like 40 at a time or so in each new game, and beef them up with future regional forms, evos and mega evolutions. This would allow garbage pokemon or under realized ones to finally be made useful over the course of time and level the playing field quite a bit.

    • LinksDaydream

      heres the thing though, “quality”, while I admit that the pokemon we have seen in gen 6 and the pokemon we have seen in gen 7 so far are spectacular, their designs are subjective and no two pokemon fan likes the same thing, heck I know tons of people that hate Lucario and Love Sunflora and I know tons of people who love the Trubbish line and dislike the Gardevior lines. Thats the problem, we’re all different and like different things so quality cant really be applied to pokemon, there is no such thing as a garbage pokemon (except for trubbish literally)

      • Luvdisc? Stantler? Masquerain? Lumineon? I could go on. I’m not specifically referring to designs here. Take Mawile. After getting its mega and a new type, it became useful. I think more older pokemon should get the same. There are plenty of pokemon I don’t like design wise that did get boosts, like garchomp and the latis, but I’m glad they got them anyway. Plus, regional variants offer an excuse to change their design up anyway.

        • LinksDaydream

          Yes but why? They don’t need it, not every Pokemon needs to be competitive (even though you can use every Pokemon competitively if you have the skill) we need sub-par Pokemon stat wise, it’s what makes the game diverse and interesting

    • rhomba

      My biggest problem with gen 6 was how forgettable the pokemon were. I think it’s due to the ratio of new pokemon to old pokemon in the game. I loved the designs of many of them prior to the games but they had little relevance in the games and so they became forgettable.

  • Ben Rhodes

    I’m sorry but, from what we know so far, were already at 70
    Rowlett (Grass/Flying)
    Dartix (Grass/Flying)
    Unknown Rowlett Evolution 2 (Grass/?) (Possible 2 forms)
    Litten (Fire)
    Unknown Litten Evolution 1 (Fire)
    Unknown Litten Evolution 2 (Fire/?) (Possible 2 forms)
    Popplio (Water)
    Brionne (Water/?)
    Unknown Popplio Evolution 2 (Water/?) (Possible 2 Forms)
    Pikipek (Normal/Flying)
    Unknown Pikipek Evolution 1 (Unknown)
    Unknown Pikipek Evolution 2 (Unknown)
    Grubbin (Bug/Electric)
    Charjabug (Bug/Electric)
    Vikavolt (Bug/Electric)
    Yungoos (Normal)
    Gumshoos (Normal)
    Oricorio (Fire.Electric,Psychic,Ghost/Flying)
    Rockruff (Rock)
    Lycanroc (Midday Form: Rock, Midnight Form: Rock)
    Komala (Normal) (Probably 1 Evolution)
    Morelull (Grass/Fairy) (Probably at least 1 evolution)
    Bounsweet (Grass) (Possible 2 Evolutions)
    Cutiefly (Bug/Fairy)
    Unknown Cutiefly Evolution (Unknown, Probably Bug/Fairy)
    Togedemaru (Electric/Steel)
    Formantis (Grass)
    Lurantis (Grass)
    Comfey (Fairy)
    Mudbray (Ground)
    Mudsdale (Ground)
    Salandit (Poison/Fire) (Possibly 1 evolution)
    Stuffel (Normal/Fighting)
    Bewear (Normal/Fighting)
    Mimikyu (Ghost/Fairy)
    Sandygast (Ghost/Ground)
    Palossand (Ghost/Ground)
    Wishawashi (Water)
    Pyukumuku (Water) (Possibly at least 1 evolution)
    Wimpod (Water/Bug) (Possibly 1 Evolution)
    Bruxish (Water/Psychic)
    Minior (Rock/Flying)
    Turtonator (Fire/Dragon) (Probably 1 Pre Evolution)
    Crabrawler (Fighting) (Possibly 1 pre evolution or Evolution)
    Type:Null (Normal)
    Jangmo-o (Dragon) (Probably 2 evolutions)
    Passimian (Fighting)
    Oranguru (Normal/Psychic)
    Drampa (Normal/Dragon) (Possibly At least 1 Pre evolution)
    Tapu Koko (Electric/Fairy)
    Unknown Guardian 2 (Unknown, Probably Psychic/Fairy)
    Unknown Guardian 3 (Unknown, Probably Fire/Fairy)
    Unknown Guardian 4 (Unknown, Probably Ghost/Fairy)
    Solgaleo (Steel/Psychic)
    Lunala (Ghost/Psychic)
    Magearna (Steel/Fairy)
    (Marshadow???)
    (A Dolphin???)
    (A Snowman???)
    (A third legend to complete a trio with Solgaleo and Lunala???)
    Exeggcutor Alola Form (Grass/Dragon)
    Vulpix Alola Form (Ice)
    Ninetales Alola Form (Ice/Fairy)
    Sandshrew Alola Form (Ice/Steel)
    Sandslash Alola Form (Ice/Steel)
    Marowak Alola Form (Fire/Ghost)
    Meowth Alola Form (Dark) (Probably means Persian is too, hoping Dark/Psychic)
    Persian Alola Form (Dark/???)
    Raichu Alola Form (Electric/Psychic)
    Rattata Alola Form (Dark/Normal)
    Raticate Alola Form(Dark/Normal)

    Putting it into the line counter, which counted how many on that list there is, we have 70 already.
    Removing Alolan Forms, 61, then 57 removing the bracketed ones, so unless we’ve seen almost every Pokemon, I’m sure we’ll have more than 71 for sure.
    That’s without even adding evolutions that probably will happen.
    Here is the site I used to count the lines cause it’s not easy by the eye,
    https://www.tools4noobs.com/online_tools/count_lines/

    • Review Reviewer

      I’m pretty sure there’s going to be many Pokemon that’s coming, a leak said that there’ll be more in S/M than X/Y, at least 80.

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    • Why “Unknown Litten Evolution 1 (Fire)”?
      You mean Torracat?

      • Ben Rhodes

        You’re right, I wrote the wrong thing, I have fixed it, and even if I hadn’t fixed it it didn’t change anything

    • Nintendalek42

      Back in September I tried to estimate the number of pokémon left that we knew nothing about, and being a little more generous with who has evolutions and pre-evolutions than you are (ex:Minior, Passimian and Oranguru assumed not to be standalone, etc.), and counting 3 event pokémon as that’s what they usually have, I came to a total of 84 new pokémon that are either revealed (48 pokémon), leaked, or can be inferred as evolutions or stalwart slots, not including Alolan forms.
      Now that might be a generous overestimation, but I think we should expect at least 90 new pokémon (which would leave us with 6+surprise pokémon, a sad result) , it is an odd-numbered generation after all.
      Ideally we’d get a little more than 100, like even-numbered generations used to contain… But these days even that feels like slightly wishful thinking.

      Honestly I really hope we get a least a dozen or two more than XY, 72 pokémon is just a bit of a pitiful number, especially if 48 pokémon are officially revealed pre-release.

      In fact XY had 42 revealed pre-release, and we have 45 over a month before release. If we assume GF is at least sticking to the same pre-release proportion rather than making it’s terrible habit of revealing far too much even worse (which I wouldn’t usually give them the benefit of the doubt for, but their current slowdown in revealing new pokémon is very encouraging), then we can expect at least a few more than XY.

      I’d also expect 20-30 Alola forms, similar numbers to megas back in gen VI. It’s a bit sad these new concepts have to steal new pokémon design slots.

    • qolf

      Hope you’re right

  • Alyssa Dunn

    i counted the pokemon on serebii with some added evolutions. and without some alola forms not revealed that there is 79 pokemon in alola exclusively.

  • Ben

    Excluding Alolan forms, I’m guessing we’all get 80-90 new Pokémon. I highly doubt this means anything.

  • MisterEman90

    Even if we don’t count Alolan Forms (which aren’t new Pokemon technically), or presumed evolutions, there’s still alot of gaps to fill in Sun and Moon yet.

    Think about it. We’re missing quite alot of typings if the current set of Pokemon are the majority:
    – Not a SINGLE new Ice Type Pokemon has been revealed yet, but there’s a whole mountain dedicated to an icy area. (I don’t really expect a ton, but at least 2-3 new Ice Types are reasonable.)
    – No new Dark types revealed yet.
    – Only a single Rock type revealed so far.
    – Very few Fire types (in a Hawaiian-based region ?)
    – Hints at there being an abundance of Grass types, but only around 4 revealed so far.
    – No Tiki Pokemon yet
    – Only a single Psychic type revealed so far
    – Still very few Fairy types revealed (which need alot more representation)
    – Only 3 Dragon types revealed.
    – Very few Flying types
    – Very few new Water types (in an island region surrounded by water ?)
    – Only a SINGLE Poison type in the entire region. (Seems unlikely with how Hawaii has some crazy creatures that would definitely be poisonous.)
    – Only one Steel type revealed so far.
    – Only 2-3 Electric types revealed so far.
    – Very few Ghost types.
    – Very few Ground types.
    – Very few Fighting types.
    – Very few unique type combinations that haven’t been done yet (This is a big one.)

    I mean, there’s just so many holes with this Pokedex so far, that I find it extremely hard to believe there won’t be at least 100 New Pokemon, if not more. I’m hoping for around 120 New Pokemon (as in actual new Pokemon, not Alolan forms.)

    One big reason I believe we’ve only scratched the surface of Sun and Moon’s roster, is because if you look back at X and Y, they did only the bare minimum for Pokemon types, making only 1 Bug Type line, 1 Ice Type Line, 2-3 Water Type Lines, etc… So far, we’re already seeing this trend being broken by multiple Bug, Grass, and Fighting Types. If they were following their same mentality as X and Y, I would think they’d follow a similar pattern here as well.

    Additionally, keep in mind that X and Y were their very first transition into a fully 3D main-series Pokemon game with full 3D Models for everything. X and Y may have been lacking due to this fact, because these were all new assets that had to be created. However, now that these assets are already in existence, they can work on brand new models for the new Pokemon instead, as more time has now been allotted for their creation most likely. With this in mind, we also know that the Sun and Moon file sizes are at least double what X and Y’s were, meaning that a bigger Pokedex is very likely. The games seem to be overflowing with content, and this may very well include a larger number of new Pokemon !

    • Nintendalek42

      You make some good points, and I agree with most of this, except when it comes to Fairy types. We already have a decent amount of 6 lines (and that’s not even counting alola formes), compared to 5 in Kalos. I think gen VII will be a little bigger than gen VI, but still at about 100 max, and if we get even one other fairy line (the tapus are probably all fairy) it’ll start feeling like overkill compared to the very generation that overcompensated with fairies because it introduced them.
      Fairies were introduced one generation ago, and they were made more common than ghost and ice type pokémon to start with. I can understand ghost and ice types not being too common, but the same should apply to fairy types… They’re supposed to represent elusive folklore creatures that are rare enough to have a veil of mystery around them. Now they’ve also made it the “cute” type, as evidenced by many chosen recipients, but honestly that’s pretty sh*t as a type concept and it’s evident the yokai/sprite nature of the type is also important (Xerneas, Mawile, Tapu Koko, etc), and I think that aspect should be more insisted on.
      But who knows, maybe you’re right, and GF are just being a little inconsiderate with fairy saturation.

      Sadly I think the point you raised about XY only having one line for certain types is likely to reapply to some extent this gen, so the fact there are few fire, dragon or electric types maybe shouldn’t be that surprising. And I wouldn’t necessarily bank on them changing their design ethos that much, I mean gen VI randomly had a relatively high number of certain types like Ghost or Dragon, and that pattern could easily carry over to this gen.

      You have a very good point with new type combinations though! Gen VI introduced 12 new ones in standard pokémon (plus all fairy combinations from previous generations arguably), and gen V about 15 or a bit more as well as 2 more with ORAS megas. So far gen VII has given us 4 new types through standard pokémon, 4 new types through alolan forms, and 3 types that were previously only used for megas or legendaries have standard pokémon or alola forms bearing them. Now obviously alolan forms seem to be a new conduit for novel type combinations, but we can probably expect a few more surprises based on the fact we don’t even have 10 new type combinations yet.

      I’d rather be pessimistic and not get my hopes up too much, but hopefully you’re right to some extent and we can look forward to at the very least 95-100 new pokémon!

    • OmegaElectivire

      It’s not exactly double the size, but it is close… Double the size for X and Y (X and Y are 1.7 GB) would be 3.4 GB and the Sun and Moon games are 3.2 GB.

  • qolf

    The amount of Pokemon X and Y had was weak af. I hope Sun and Moon has a lot more. The more new pokemon the better to me, thats one of the reasons Black and White is at my top

    • Nintendalek42

      And quality v quantity arguments don’t even hold up that well! Sure BW had some duds, but it had as many amazing mons as the follwing generations IMO, and XY also had duds.

      Sadly these days I think game freak consider megas and alola forms to count as pokémon design slots, and thus that reduced the amount of purely new pokémon, probably so they can slow down up to a thousand.
      But at least even if that is taken into account this is an odd gen so we should be getting more pokémon than XY’s dismal total.

      • ant

        I don’t think they were purposely cutting us short. They had to remodel e v e r y t h i n g. 3d models aren’t easy to make and they had to make them for 650 other pokemon. As well as the all the characters and textures. They also included other features like megas and pokemon amie. I see XY as a showcase for their present capabilities for the 3ds.
        I have good hopes for the amount of new pokemon (not counting alolan forms, I think we may get 1-2 more alolan lines and thats it). I’m going to assume the 100-120 range.

        • Nintendalek42

          Yeah, you’re right, the move to 3D probably did play a part in why XY felt like it could have used more time and effort.
          I think you’re being quite optimistic about the number of new pokémon though (except alola forms, I can’t imagine they’d leak such a large proportion now, or do so little with the concept). I’d rather temper my expectations and not be disappointed, but I hope you’re right.

    • MisterEman90

      Absolutely agree with this sentiment.
      I don’t necessarily want to see over-saturation with a bunch of sub-par Pokemon, but as far as quality vs quantity goes, I feel like there should be a perfect middle-ground that does both of these things.

      Anything less than 100 Pokemon at this point is unacceptable. I can see why this wasn’t the case in X and Y, since they didn’t have the 3D models in place and had to build everything from scratch, but that isn’t the case now. They have the 700+ Pokemon from gens 1-6 already, so more work should be put into new assets. Also, is anyone else glad there’s no new mega evolutions in Gen 7 ? Because I am. While Megas are cool, they made X and Y far too easy, so I’m actually really glad that they’re limited to the current ones. However, Alolan Forms might be a bit too abundant, which worries me, as those are new assets that take away from designing true new Pokemon.

      Am I the only one who’s just a little bit sick and tired of the constant Generation 1 nostalgia trips that Gamefreak keeps throwing at the fanbase ? Like, yes, Gen 1 was a thing. We get it. Stop shoving it down our throats already, and give some 2nd-5th gen Pokemon a chance in the spotlight again already… And this is coming from a 90’s kid who grew up with the original 151 !

  • PumpkinBomb

    WTH ? they arleady released like 50 pokemon if the game only have 70 something then there is like 20 pokemon left, plus few alolan forms……

  • PumpkinBomb

    sugimori already mentioned before that new gens will have less pokemon, but they always change their words

  • PumpkinBomb

    I tried to avoid the little spoilers left during the XY days and keep the last few pokemon to explore them in the game, but the game was full of old pokemon, pretty mush every single trainer had old pokemon, very few had kalos pokemon and all of them where the pokemon they already released.

  • Remember that the games almost double the size of XY, that should mean something more than a bigger world and better graphics.

  • AJ

    It is quite literally impossible for S/M to have the same amount of Pokemon as X/Y because including ones revealed, ones we know about from leaks, and ones we can assume have at least one unrevealed evo, the count is already over 69.

  • JJ Knight

    I hope not; that’d mean they pretty much revealed every single Pokemon with the exception of evolutions. Why would they reveal most of their new Pokemon?

  • Elton

    I was watching a clip on YouTube by someone called “Medical Gamer” and he was going over the last “leak” this “Riddler” was going to give and it said how many of each type we’re supposed to get.
    I did the calculations and it added up to about 120 Pokemon. That’s including Alolan forms.
    I’m guessing we’ll have about 100 new Pokémon and about 20 A forms.
    I’m not happy Alolan forms are replacing new Pokemon, but it seemed like a decent amount.

    • PJ

      That post was marked as speculation, so it was just the riddler guessing

  • TigerMasku

    Alolan markowak would have been better if his skull was set on fire.

    • PJ

      would have been better if its head actually floated separate from its body like it was decapitated

  • Funktastic

    So when are they going to introduce new actual evolutions again? Not redesigned versions of the same old Pokemon..

  • Here’s hoping that this is just a coincidence…

    A 70-sized dex seems way to small considering how many slots this gen seem to be going to Legendaries and Tapus and UB’s and all that stuff.

  • Alyssa Dunn

    i heard that there’s a corocoro leak in like 18 hours

  • Alyssa Dunn

    on 4chan

  • Alyssa Dunn

    but don’t take it seriously but that would be great if they did that

  • DefensiveBastiodon

    Since sets usually have multiple cards for a single Pokémon, it’s likely it might just be a small set. Regardless, I don’t care at this point. I’m tired, I want a proper meal, and school is killing me. I need some Pokémon to help me relax.